Author Topic: A little progress XL H-58  (Read 41877 times)

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #375 on: November 07, 2021, 06:22:44 PM »
concerning the stall strip idea: If all that is required is as your picture shows it sure seems like a neat simple solution to the wing twist situation.  I think I've read every post on this forum and I've never seen it mentioned or discussed.  Maybe someone who is knowledgeable on the subject will chime in on this.
Actually, I mentioned it above..
Quote
FWIW, Mouser is neutrally stable in pitch and roll, and unstable in yaw. Accelerated stalls are an acrobatic maneuver for me.  :) Especially to the right. I've never been able to do one of those without losing 300 feet. Would some washout help that? I would think so, or maybe just stall strips.
I think it would be overkill, though. As Aaron says, the Legal Eagle mushes at very low speeds. Apparently, very easy to control. Stall strips are normally used on more high performance airplanes.. :)

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #376 on: November 09, 2021, 03:19:16 PM »
While waiting on my cable and hardware order, I made up the cable guides that bolt to the rear struts. Parted off the tubing, and faced them to .490". It needs to be a smidgen (technical term) under 1/2" for the circlip to fully fit into the Piper fairleads.

My third hand holds everything in location for welding..

Woo hoo..
FWIW, Spruce wants $2.45 a foot for this stuff. $28.99 for 100 feet (!) and $10.99 for 30 thimbles and sleeves. FREE shipping.  :) Good quality, made in a little town in California, I think.. Chino or something like that.. ;)
I love it when a plan comes together..


That about does it for the airframe. Now, I can pull the wings back off, bring the fuselage back into the shop and start thinking about making the fuel tank, oil tank, and mounting the engine.

Offline Smokewagen

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #377 on: November 11, 2021, 01:14:05 PM »
Awesome sight! I’ll be glad when I get that much done,I am just starting.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #378 on: November 15, 2021, 05:43:18 PM »
Ok, I can't put it off any longer.  :) I've seen many efforts to mount the Verner on youtube with mostly problematic endings. Breaking welds, engine shaking, etc. Here's what I'm going to attempt.

The yellow is station one. The engine needs to be raised 3 inches for prop clearance.
The four small diameters are the locations of the engine mount holes on the Verner. Those will be 1/2" diameter 1/16" wall 4130 tubing that is welded to the four rectangles in purple. They are 1"diameter .035 tubing that will be split to hold some motorcycle engine vibration isolators I found on the net.

They are metric, so ream them out to 7/16" so I can use AN hardware, and turn them down to .930" to fit inside the 1"diameter .035 tubing.

There will be bent up 1//16" pieces that weld to the mount ring in light blue, and will be bolted to the isolators.
At least, that is the plan so far. Stay tuned.  :)

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #379 on: November 17, 2021, 08:13:29 AM »
These will be the flanges that weld to the mount ring. The flats will be bent up 90 degrees. Bolts will go through the holes to hold the vibration isolators. Rather than laboriously drilling, band sawing, and filing the 1/16" 4130, I'm headed out to a water jet shop.. :)

There (hopefully) is method to my madness. All will become clear in a week or so.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #380 on: November 19, 2021, 02:18:37 PM »
Another little bite off the elephant.  :)

An AN3 will squeeze the 1" tubing on the isolator, the assembly will be bolted to the engine casting with an AN6 after I ream out the casting to 3/8".

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #381 on: November 20, 2021, 10:54:06 AM »
Brackets folded up, and maybe the plan is a little clearer?

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #382 on: November 26, 2021, 03:48:39 PM »
Ok, proof of concept looks ok, time to make the real thing. I wasn't liking what I had with the TIG, so gas welded them. Cleaned up the inside with a die grinder..

And band sawed the slots.

Can't put it off any longer.. :)  I'll have to try to form the tubing circle that I have drawn a few posts back.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #383 on: November 29, 2021, 03:33:57 PM »
Attempt number 1 to bend that stupid circle. This is some canvas bakelite that I've had for ever. Nasty stuff to work with, but it is flat, stable, and *I have some.*  :) The four 3/8" diameter holes around the periphery are where the Verner manual says they are. They specifically forbid welding on the engine, so this piece of bakelite will hold the vibration isolators in location while tacking the folded pieces to the circle.

My motorcycle tire changer gizmo bolted to the floor to hold it.

Packed the tubing with playground sand, and found a piece of stainless tubing that just fits over the 4130 for leverage. Theoretically, the sand will keep the tubing from crimping.

Well, we really didn't think it would work, did we? Tomorrow, I'll get out my heating torch and see if I can set something on fire.. :o
If that doesn't work, I'll think of making an octagon instead of a circle, but that would be a lot of cutting, fitting, and welding..

Offline scottiniowa

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #384 on: November 29, 2021, 05:37:52 PM »
Chuck, 
    Bend tubing all the time here, and generally use a inner die block with the radius you want  and a outer follower block.. both of these have the tubing exterior tightly held while bending.  (nothing inside) There is tremendous pressure on all sides of the tube when the process happens.  

not sure what kind of tubing size your using, but perhaps even a conduit bender with your heat will work better than your block.
best email address:  irondesignairparts@gmail.com

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #385 on: November 30, 2021, 05:15:46 AM »
Thanks, Scott. My original plan was to make dies like you mention for my little bending machine, but it isn't big enough for that. Harbor Freight makes a tubing roller for 1" tubing, but I hated to spend the big bucks for a tool that I would only use once.
Hmmm, a conduit bender isn't *that* expensive..probably could rent one.. if today's method turns out as poorly as yesterday, I'll give that a try.  :)

Offline scottiniowa

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #386 on: November 30, 2021, 07:52:17 AM »
Just to add a bit more to this Chuck, (and anyone else doing this)  With your tools that I have seen in the photos, you do not need to make the die blocks to fit your bender, Rather, the inner die block is held in your vice, with the outer die block held with two tie straps to the axis line of the inner die block. 

of course you need to hold or maintain the tubing prior to the bend (actually the whole time) but I know you would figure that out.

Depending on your radius, you can make many little bends, or one larger one for the part. Make a mark on your tubing and die for consistent bends (can't guess here) i.e.  if you have a mark every 6" and bend to your next mark, and repeat, you should be on track.  Might be clear as mud, but hopefully clear enough.

lastly the conduit bender works for some tubing, not all, i.e. you can't bend 1/2" tubing with a 3/4" OD conduit bender.
best email address:  irondesignairparts@gmail.com

Offline okdonn

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #387 on: November 30, 2021, 10:33:29 AM »
If you are a member of EAA, watch this video: https://www.eaa.org/Videos/Hints-for-Homebuilders/Tube-Fabric/6231259463001

Basically, cut a piece of strong wood (I glued two pieces of 3/4" plywood together) to the radius of the bend you want, then route a groove the same radius as your tube. Make a U to go over the tube while in the groove, drill a hole through it and the form wood and use a bolt or pin to hold it in place. Bend the tube as needed.
Don in Okla.  DE Plans B-40 (small), CE plans CE-02 (all weather),  Tailwind project #746 (medium),  C182A (large)
One size does NOT fit all!

Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #388 on: November 30, 2021, 03:07:02 PM »
Thanks to you guys for the tips. I think I've said before, though, that once in a while in a project, you need to shoot the engineer and commence production.  :grin:
Heating sort of worked, but it was very fussy just how much heat you use. Just a little too much and.. oh well. I did get two quarter circles that are pretty good. I was thinking the best I could do would be two half circles. I have just enough 3/4 tubing left to finish it if I do this:

Yeah, I could drive down to Indianapolis and (cough cough) *buy* more tubing..  :) make some tools, and do 2 half circles.
Or, I can cut up what I have and finish this job. I'll take door number two.."Sometimes, a guy just needs to know his limitations."

Offline Theodore

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Re: A little progress XL H-58
« Reply #389 on: December 01, 2021, 06:14:58 AM »
several smaller quarter pieces looks like it will fly! i'm no engaear dat fer sure, im da guy that builds their cocktail napkin sketch(underbudget and ontime).

enclosure is my bending short cut...

You know why theres no architects is heaven?... Sorry Scott.
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