Author Topic: 3rd times a charm  (Read 1356 times)

Offline Vince Carucci

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 209
  • Total likes: 89
  • EAA 324
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 10.0 Windows NT 10.0
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 94.0.4606.71 Chrome 94.0.4606.71
    • Legal Eagle T-53
  • Eagle Type: LE: T-53
3rd times a charm
« on: October 12, 2021, 05:41:35 PM »
Just about to install the controls. I was planning on positioning the stick about halfway between the lower seat bar and station #2. I'd appreciate it if anyone wants to share their thoughts on the best location... where did you position yours...

Vince

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Total likes: 553
  • New Member
  • OS:
  • Linux (Ubuntu) Linux (Ubuntu)
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 85.0 Firefox 85.0
  • Eagle Type: LEXL #H-58
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2021, 07:16:31 AM »
Sure can. Pay no attention to the "lightning hole" aft of the location that works.  :) Full up elevator hits the seat front, full down would hit station 2 if the stick was long enough.

Offline Vince Carucci

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 209
  • Total likes: 89
  • EAA 324
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 10.0 Windows NT 10.0
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 94.0.4606.81 Chrome 94.0.4606.81
    • Legal Eagle T-53
  • Eagle Type: LE: T-53
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2021, 07:31:13 AM »
Thanks, that was helpful. That proves not all my assumptions are bonkers.

There is actually a lot of information in that picture. 

Vince

Offline DA Miller

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Total likes: 78
  • New Member building LE-XL
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 10.0 Windows NT 10.0
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 94.0.4606.81 Chrome 94.0.4606.81
  • Eagle Type: LE-XL C-03
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2021, 01:33:10 PM »
Chuck, what values are you planning for full up and full down elevator deflection? For example, 40* up 30* down. Likewise what values for rudder and ailerons.  I've not been able to find any recommendations by the designer. I have values for the 7AC Aeronca Champ which probably will work. Some on this forum have mentioned 45* up and 45* down which seems a little excessive. Thanks for your thinking on this.

Offline Kamcoman77

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 320
  • Total likes: 213
  • LE-XL H-51
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 10.0 Windows NT 10.0
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 94.0.4606.81 Chrome 94.0.4606.81
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2021, 02:46:32 PM »
Here is a short video of ORV. You can get some idea of control surface movement from it.

Offline DA Miller

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Total likes: 78
  • New Member building LE-XL
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 10.0 Windows NT 10.0
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 94.0.4606.81 Chrome 94.0.4606.81
  • Eagle Type: LE-XL C-03
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2021, 03:49:10 PM »
Thanks for that video. I think it shows that in normal flight regimes, there is little control surface displacement other than the ailerons.  The rudder does get a workout when taxiing.  For those who may be wondering, here are the Aeronca 7AC Champ specs. Elev.+ (up) 25*, -15.5*. Ail. +28.5, -18*. Rudr. lft 25* rt. 25*. Vert stab 3/8"left offset. Horz stab approximately 5* down. One post I read had to add more up elevator to get  flare authority to compensate for a nose heavy CG. I guess one sets the control stops at a point that precludes control damage yet allows enough control displacement for safe operation. One final note: the VW motor spins opposite of the Continental A65 therefor the vert. stab. would require right offset



















Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Total likes: 553
  • New Member
  • OS:
  • Linux (Ubuntu) Linux (Ubuntu)
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 85.0 Firefox 85.0
  • Eagle Type: LEXL #H-58
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2021, 04:42:22 PM »
Chuck, what values are you planning for full up and full down elevator deflection? For example, 40* up 30* down. Likewise what values for rudder and ailerons.  I've not been able to find any recommendations by the designer. I have values for the 7AC Aeronca Champ which probably will work. Some on this forum have mentioned 45* up and 45* down which seems a little excessive. Thanks for your thinking on this.

I'm old  ::) and have forgotten. I *did* do some research when setting the stops, though. Elevator travel is more than you would think because of the slow speeds. I do remember that. I have the tail feathers hanging on the wall so I don't have to walk around them, or I'd just go out and measure.
Elevator, of course, is the most important.You want to have enough up travel to get into a full stall. Down isn't as important unless you are thinking about inverted work.  :o Rudder? I just set those stops so they would clear the elevators.Again, not too important unless you are planning snap rolls.. :))

Offline DA Miller

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Total likes: 78
  • New Member building LE-XL
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 10.0 Windows NT 10.0
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 94.0.4606.81 Chrome 94.0.4606.81
  • Eagle Type: LE-XL C-03
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2021, 06:02:59 PM »
tks for your response. The comment of more elevator movement because of our slow speeds is one that I hadn't thought about.  I'll probably set my up elevator for a little more up movement than I had previously considered.

Offline DA Miller

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Total likes: 78
  • New Member building LE-XL
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 10.0 Windows NT 10.0
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 94.0.4606.81 Chrome 94.0.4606.81
  • Eagle Type: LE-XL C-03
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2021, 06:44:22 PM »
For anyone who cares.  Just found a post by Tom H giving his aileron travel as +24* and -19*

Offline Kamcoman77

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 320
  • Total likes: 213
  • LE-XL H-51
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 10.0 Windows NT 10.0
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 94.0.4606.81 Chrome 94.0.4606.81
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2021, 08:04:31 PM »
Tom H is on target. I just noticed my XL page 21 states "Set rudder stops to avoid elevator - set elevator stops 8" up & 7" down". That works out to about 23° up and 20° down for a 19" wide elevator. I think I'll shoot for 25° up & 20° down.

Offline DA Miller

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Total likes: 78
  • New Member building LE-XL
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 10.0 Windows NT 10.0
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 94.0.4606.81 Chrome 94.0.4606.81
  • Eagle Type: LE-XL C-03
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2021, 03:47:32 PM »
TKS for that input. Your comment about a note on your plans to set the elevator stops at up so-and-so and down so-and - so lead into my next problem.  My XL plans are old, C-03 bought 12/2012.  I don't have these notes and others like "how the plywood is applied to the spar root end" which ends up with a 1 1/4" space between the two Al wing attach fittings. Here's my question: how do the newer plans tell how to locate the two mounting holes in the spar which attach the Al wing attach fittings. My plans say to measure down 5" from top of front spar and down  3 3/4" from top of rear spar. These locations for the holes don't make any sense to me.  Please help.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Total likes: 553
  • New Member
  • OS:
  • Linux (Ubuntu) Linux (Ubuntu)
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 85.0 Firefox 85.0
  • Eagle Type: LEXL #H-58
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2021, 05:40:52 PM »
Tom H is on target. I just noticed my XL page 21 states "Set rudder stops to avoid elevator - set elevator stops 8" up & 7" down". That works out to about 23° up and 20° down for a 19" wide elevator. I think I'll shoot for 25° up & 20° down.

FWIW, I made the up elevator stop adjustable just in case less or more is needed.

Offline Kamcoman77

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 320
  • Total likes: 213
  • LE-XL H-51
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 10.0 Windows NT 10.0
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 94.0.4606.81 Chrome 94.0.4606.81
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2021, 05:51:16 PM »
The dimensions you quote are the same as on my plans, updated 2013. The distance from top of spar to hole centerlines only works if spars are 6-7/8" and 5-3/8" tall. My rear spar is not that size so I cannot use the 3-3/4" dimension (top down). Since the wing root is supposed to be the same angle as the top wing mount tubing, I will place my fitting hole centerlines 1-7/8" from the bottom of front spar and 1-5/8" from bottom of rear spar like the plans show. The reason the rear is 1/4" different from front is because the rear spar sits on 1/4" rib capstrips. When calculated this way, the fittings are the same distance from the wing bottom to the fitting bolt holes. This makes the wing the same angle as the top tube.

Offline Chuck in Indiana

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 477
  • Total likes: 553
  • New Member
  • OS:
  • Linux (Ubuntu) Linux (Ubuntu)
  • Browser:
  • Firefox 85.0 Firefox 85.0
  • Eagle Type: LEXL #H-58
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2021, 05:58:22 PM »
TKS for that input. Your comment about a note on your plans to set the elevator stops at up so-and-so and down so-and - so lead into my next problem.  My XL plans are old, C-03 bought 12/2012.  I don't have these notes and others like "how the plywood is applied to the spar root end" which ends up with a 1 1/4" space between the two Al wing attach fittings. Here's my question: how do the newer plans tell how to locate the two mounting holes in the spar which attach the Al wing attach fittings. My plans say to measure down 5" from top of front spar and down  3 3/4" from top of rear spar. These locations for the holes don't make any sense to me.  Please help.
Those dimensions are correct. What is it you don't understand? I'll try to help. If you haven't seen it, I've BTDT on my project.
https://www.eaglersnest.com/forum/index.php?topic=2197.0

Offline DA Miller

  • Donor 2022
  • *
  • Posts: 73
  • Total likes: 78
  • New Member building LE-XL
  • OS:
  • Windows NT 10.0 Windows NT 10.0
  • Browser:
  • Chrome 94.0.4606.81 Chrome 94.0.4606.81
  • Eagle Type: LE-XL C-03
Re: 3rd times a charm
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2021, 06:19:14 PM »
TKS for your replies. I was leaning towards equal distances from the bottom of the rib. However, one poster brought up the chord as perhaps the critical reference and not the bottom of the rib.  He also said that maybe we should trust the designer on this. The other question in my mind was if the designer wanted the wing parallel with the top fuse rail, why didn't he reference the distance from the bottom of the rib. It's so much clearer that way. Thank you for the validation I was looking for.  By the way, adjustable control surface stops is a good idea. I'm going to use them where I can.

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2022, SimplePortal