Eagler's Nest
Airframes => Single Seaters => XL => Topic started by: ArcticDave on September 18, 2016, 10:49:28 AM
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Plans arrived Friday and I started clearing a spot for my workbench this morning.
Not much of a start, but it's a start.
Couple of questions for you guys,
Are there colors that are considered bad luck for aircraft? I'm not overly superstitious but was curious none the less.
Also, you guys that bought and had all your long stock( tubes, spar caps, etc...) shipped to you, do remember the shipping cost?
I live about a half a days drive from Aircraft Spruce in Corona and was considering the feasabilty of just picking up my supplies in person.
Thanks in advance,
Dave
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Dave
I started my XL in June and have the wood work of the right wing complete but I still have to sand and varnish before I start the right wing. It cost me $150 to ship all the wood (14 foot caps) from Atlanta to central Florida.
Good luck with your build
Jim
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Thanks for input Jim! Good luck with your XL too, looking forward to seeing it fly.
Sounds like a road trip may be worth it, $120 for gas there and back might be a lot cheaper by the time all the 4130 is added in.
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don't forget plywood. 8' lengths don't ship cheap. long stuff often gets damaged in shipping. It doesn't even need to be long.
I picked mine up. They forgot to give me one package. 8 mm plywood. so it came ups. hole all the waythru the box. They delivered it anyway thinking the furring strip protectors was the product and that paper thin ply was a protector. Corner of a box right through it. Have some extra now.
tom xl-7
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Tom, you bring up a good point. Shipping damage happens...frequently. Having to send something back and wait for a return shipment can eat up a lot of time and money.
Thanks for the input both of you. It helped 👍
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Making slow progress over here in Arizona. Cooler weather is back and the shop is almost finished.
I managed to score a torch and bottle set a couple of days ago for $300.
Smith Airline with cutting head, rosebud and 5 welding tips. The gentleman I bought it from said he had purchased it originally in 1970!
It was just refurbushed 3 months ago and looks beautiful. Also included was a newly redone victor 100 set, about 75' of hose, and bottles with a cart. Bottles are about half full. I think I got a pretty good deal. There is a reciept for almost $150 for the refurbishing in the paperwork.
While slow it is great to be making progress of some sort!
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Drive. Shipping costs for the full length components are amazing!
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Hi John,
I'm headed over to get my tubing and wheels next Thursday... Lord willin and the creek don't rise!
Dave
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Well...I managed to find my way over to Aircraft Spruce. It was a hard battle as California traffic sucks!
Honestly had a pretty uneventful trip. Folks at ACS were friendly, not a whole lot of goodies in their showroom, but they did have an old Kitfox hanging from the ceiling.
Happily back in Arizona this morning with a cardboard tube full of 4130 sitting on the floor.
Time to finish the shop and workbench :-)
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Unfortunately I drive close to Aircraft Spruce about twice a month with an 18' enclosed trailer. Next time you need something let me know. Sure a lot easier to drive to the Imperial Valley than Corona!!!
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Thanks for the offer! I may take you up on it if you're not careful. Always wanted an excuse to check out the dunes and meeting another builder would icing on the cake. 👍
Probably be 2-3 months before savings allow another bulk purchase.
Dave
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No problem at all........come on by.
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I had a friend over several days ago helping me in the shop and we got to talking about the plane. He asked about what I was going to do for a fuel tank, I told him I wanted a fuselage tank, but the only location available is in the front(if you want gravity feed.) He suggested widening the upper cabin area and install a tank there. CG wouldn't be effected by fuel level. Other than weight... is there a structural/safety reason for not doing so?
Attached is a crappy line drawing from Sketchup of the idea. The A & B crosstubes could be used as the wing mounts if positioned correctly.
No problem at all........come on by.
Thank you!
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looks like you understand the weight thing, (and the limit is already close) you have to make sure the tube between the front wing attach points can handle the compression. If you get both accomplished, then fantastic and please do tell the group, where you cut the weight in order to add it here. I'm guessing most would be interested.
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I am still thinking of making my cabin top wider...maybe even full width which would make it a " cabin XL " I guess. The web says .625" .049 wall 4130 tube 72" long weighs about 1.8 lbs from what I've seen. Extra welds would add more. Scott makes a good point about compression but an N3 Pup and the J3 kitten seem to manage with small tubes in that area.
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Dave in your sketch there is a solid behind the seat. Is that a baggage shelf?
Back to the question at hand. I have strongly considered a center wing tank. I was simply going to make the wing mount square tubes longer.
The extra tubes as in your drawing do make tank mounting more flexible and the wider cabin top would certainly give you more room for those who feel the need to add doors.
I don't like adding weight.
If I do make a center wing tank It would hold less than 5 gallons as I would like to add a small header tank mounted forward of station 2 with a sight window.
When the header is not full you know what time it is. I have always used and appreciated the reserve standpipe on motorcycles. That extra fuel has saved me many times.
not everyone would like the fuel overhead. I'm not too sure fuel directly behind a hot engine is a great idea either. Both have been done since the beginning of aviation. The solution is to not land nose first.
Tom XL-7
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Thanks for the replies! It's given me some more food for thought...
Scott: Absolutely, weight will always be the elephant in the room in regards to aircraft...especially 103 compliant ones. At this stage I'm still weighing options before I start welding. I haven't decided if 103 is practical for my mission yet. There are many details to consider, and in my case, longevity is paramount due to the rough areas I have available for landing strips. We have lots of rocks in Arizona...lots and lots of rocks. Landing gear upgrades alone could push me over 103 limitations. The parachute trick may allow me to squeak by...we'll see. Thanks for your input it is much appreciated.
Dave: I can see a cabin version of an XL extending your flying season by quite a bit. I looked at my Kitten plans this morning after reading your reply and noticed that it calls for 1" .035 in that crosstube I have labeled as A in my drawing. That is of course for a fuselage that is full width at the top. Mr. Steere did full width when he built Bodacious so it has been done. Since you are not bound by the same rules we are here in the States...go for it!
Tom: Yes that is a cargo shelf. The extra gross was why I decided on the XL. Camping or prospecting gear will fit nicely back there.
I had not considered just widening the wing mounts a little. It is a plausible idea. A quick calculation says a 6" wide tank made to fit between the wing attachments would have a capacity of over 4.5 gallons(26L"x6w"x7h"). Combined with your header tank that would be a nice setup with very little weight penalty.
As close as we sit to the action in these little craft...I'm not there IS a safe place to have a fuel tank!
Thanks again guys for the responses. More things to ponder while waiting for funds to finish the shop.
Dave
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Dave, could you please tell me what the size of the " B " tube is on your Kitten plans ? Thanks..
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It just says 5/8. I would assume the same .035 used for most of the fuselage.
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A happy day in the big AZ this mornin'. Finally completed a suitable work area and built my workbench. Managed to blow $150 on wood for the bench, but it's stout and level.
I'm going out after it warms up a bit to finish the layout lines and start on station 1.
I have a question...does anyone remember how long the 1 1/8" mount tubes are? I don't have a set of the Cont. bushings handy to measure. I have seen a couple of diagrams on how they go together, but no length measurement on that tube. I would like to weld those in before standing it up.
Thanks!
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Since I didn't get any input on the length of the engine mount tubes, I tacked up station one naked and will fill it in later after the correct dimensions are discovered.
After smoking the plywood I used for the station one jig, I decided to block up the lower longerons to give enough space under the fuselage that would allow me to slip in a heat shield. That should save my bench from some of the charring.
The tubing is fitting together great. I used some thin card stock from a case of wobbly pops wrapped in tape around the tube to do my fitting. Works very well. I got the crosstubes and diagonal fit in the seat area last night.
Now that the project is moving forward, Im suprised at how quick it is to fit each tube. A flap wheel takes care of most of the notch and a carbide deburring tool on a die grinder is perfect for finishing the cutouts.
Should start looking like an airplane soon. :-)
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Dave, on page 8a of my le xl plans it shows the mount tubes are 1 1/8 outside dia. x 1 1/8 long x .125 thickness. I figured someone else would of answered by now. I'm sorry , I didn't have time to answer when I first read your post. I was headed out the door to go to work.
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Dave, on page 8a of my le xl plans it shows the mount tubes are 1 1/8 outside dia. x 1 1/8 long x .125 thickness. I figured someone else would of answered by now. I'm sorry , I didn't have time to answer when I first read your post. I was headed out the door to go to work.
Poorman has this correct, that is what is shown on page 8a I have questioned this to death, and have never got any answers saying yeah or neigh on the fitting.. As I have not found any conti-A65 rubbers cut at the shown 45 degrees...I guess most are just going with the miss-match of shapes...(side slope of fittings to rubbers)
Always welcome thought on this area, seldom hear anything about it.
Best of success
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Thank you Poorman!
I looked at that page top to bottom and couldn't see that. I just looked again...and there it is in black and white. Lol
I never could understand why there were square pyramids on there....duh.
Thanks again!
Yesterday was fruitful. Got station 2&3 crosstubes tacked in place. Tailpost jigged along with upper longeron of the tail. Both bottom longerons are bent up and ready to be fit and tacked. Had to scarf the lowers cause I didn't know any better and only ordered 12' tubing. Oh well, they extended sections are straight and reinforced correctly thanks to my low buck scarfing sled.
Thanks for pointing that out Scott. I assume the rubber will conform to whatever angle the tube is when compressed...but it certainly couldn't hurt to cut the angles to match the continental bushings. That seems like the correct way to go.
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I would like to thank those that have chimed in here to help with my questions.
After a lot of internal deliberation on what I want in an aircraft. I have decided to make some changes to mine. These changes are enough that it really won't be a Legal Eagle XL. It'll be very similar, but a bit different. As such I feel it's appropriate to stop posting the build here. I made the decision yesterday while framing up the front section of my fuselage. The last thing I want to do is offend Mr. Milholland by claiming it's a Legal Eagle. He has given me a fantastic base to build MY aircraft, for which I am truly grateful.
If some of you are interested enough to follow along, please feel free. You can find the Desert Eagle build here...
https://www.facebook.com/ArcticDave/
There is nothing for sale there...just me building a little airplane. It's all about my journey to the wild blue yonder... ☺
Thanks again to all who have participated. Take care guys and happy flying!
Dave
Mods: If my link is violating some rule...feel free to remove it.
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Mods: If my link is violating some rule...feel free to remove it.
Unless you have had some different conversations with Leonard, to my knowledge he has always just asked builders call their modified plane a special or something other than Legal Eagle. He has always held it will take you longer to get in the air, your plane will invariably be heavier and you will be a test pilot if you stray significantly from the plans, but he knows it is your plane and your time and money.
So where's the beef..? I hope you have not been offended here, and hope you feel free to continue to ask questions here and share your progress.
There is absolutely no problem on plugging your aviation business pursuits or links to aviation activities. Hell, we have a Category for anything you want to post as long as it is family appropriate.
How about calling it "Dave's XL F-71 Special"..?
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Thanks for the input Dan. I have no beef whatsoever. I apologize if my post came across that way. This a great forum and there are some very helpful people here.
I just didn't want to step on any toes with my build.
There are some changes I have planned that will more than likely take my craft out of 103 compliance, but will increase it's usefulness to me...and longevity. It's a tradeoff, increased red tape for increased function.
Since admin is cool with it, I'll keep posting pics and asking questions.
Thanks
Dave
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Cool..!
:emoji_u1f60e:
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Todays progress. I got the front section framed in and tack welded.
I had to clean off the bench...it looked like a trailer park in the aftermath of a tornado.
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Todays progress. I got the front section framed in and tack welded.
I had to clean off the bench...it looked like a trailer park in the aftermath of a tornado.
MVP...
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Hi Artic Dave,
Your fuselage is progressing nicely.
Is this photo an illusion because of the camera angle or is the bottom of your firewall higher up than 4" from the fuselage bottom in the passenger compartment? It looks like a really steep angle up in this photo.
Carry On
Larry H
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Thanks Larry.
No illusion. My forward geometry is changed up a bit. I needed more prop clearance. Over the front visability took a hit though...
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What engine, Dave ? 3 round ?
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I was just thinking about that severe angle up to your rudder pedals from the seat. I had already been thinking of lowering that angle on my plane from the plans dimensions.. I will leave the top horizontal and engine attach points at the original points but possibly drop the bottom horizontal some. When I get to my fuselage I'll check all of that and decide then. If I drop the bottom horizontal a little, I realize I may have to add another horizontal tube or angle braces at the lower engine mounting points.
Larry H
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What engine, Dave ? 3 round ?
I want to provide ample clearance for the Scarlett, but financial reality dictates I build a half veedub and be happy with that for now. Hopefully by the time I can afford to buy a Scarlett from Frank...a few other guys will be flying them. Looks to be the perfect engine on paper.
The main reason for the extra prop clearance is the rough terrain. I'm making Cub style struts with a bit more travel to soak up the rough ground. I need room for that suspension to work and not have to worry about flicking rocks into the prop.
I was just thinking about that severe angle up to your rudder pedals from the seat. I had already been thinking of lowering that angle on my plane from the plans dimensions.. I will leave the top horizontal and engine attach points at the original points but possibly drop the bottom horizontal some. When I get to my fuselage I'll check all of that and decide then. If I drop the bottom horizontal a little, I realize I may have to add another horizontal tube or angle braces at the lower engine mounting points. Larry H
That's what I find appealing about the line of Eagles. Within reason you can change it up to fit the builder!
I mocked mine up on the table before hand to verify the rudder pedals wouldn't be too high. I looked a little ridiculous sitting on a block of wood with my feet on a stack of lumber trying different configurations, but it set my mind at ease before bending the longerons.
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Still pecking away at it. I love gas welding! I wish I had picked it up years ago. I always dismissed it as too old fashioned. Almost zero sparks compared to the mig and stick welding I have been doing for 30 years. It almost feels genteel...like a fine cigar and brandy should accompany me as I slowly puddle along. Quite the zen experience.
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What engine, Dave ? 3 round ?
I want to provide ample clearance for the Scarlett, but financial reality dictates I build a half veedub and be happy with that for now. Hopefully by the time I can afford to buy a Scarlett from Frank...a few other guys will be flying them. Looks to be the perfect engine on paper.
The main reason for the extra prop clearance is the rough terrain. I'm making Cub style struts with a bit more travel to soak up the rough ground. I need room for that suspension to work and not have to worry about flicking rocks into the prop.
Maybe I have missed it, when the question was asked, about raising the station (1st station-engine mount) you stated that this was done for prop clearance, and that makes sense. But you did not elaborate on "how much" And what you did about the corresponding raise in top cowl area (frontal view) Not that it is a great concern, as there are many aircraft with poor fwd visibility while on ground taxi.
You also mentioned "cub style gear" Do you mean bungee? or another type? taller? wider? Just curios...
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Arctic Dave....back on page 2 of this thread you show a picture of a welded splice in the longeron tubing that you needed to perform to " extend" the 12' tubes that you had to a suitable length. In finishing that splice did you slip a sleeve of tubing over that welded joint and weld that on too ? Thanks.
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What engine, Dave ? 3 round ?
I want to provide ample clearance for the Scarlett, but financial reality dictates I build a half veedub and be happy with that for now. Hopefully by the time I can afford to buy a Scarlett from Frank...a few other guys will be flying them. Looks to be the perfect engine on paper.
The main reason for the extra prop clearance is the rough terrain. I'm making Cub style struts with a bit more travel to soak up the rough ground. I need room for that suspension to work and not have to worry about flicking rocks into the prop.
Maybe I have missed it, when the question was asked, about raising the station (1st station-engine mount) you stated that this was done for prop clearance, and that makes sense. But you did not elaborate on "how much" And what you did about the corresponding raise in top cowl area (frontal view) Not that it is a great concern, as there are many aircraft with poor fwd visibility while on ground taxi.
You also mentioned "cub style gear" Do you mean bungee? or another type? taller? wider? Just curios...
Good morning Scott. I would have to look at my CAD drawing to give you the exact amount, but I believe the bottom of station #1 was raised around 4-41/2" above the LEXL call out. I mocked a seat in the cabin yesterday to verify headroom before tacking the top longerons, and visibility over the nose is great when it's level. At 3 point, probably a different story. Thankfully this is such a small craft, that looking out the side while on the ground is a non issue for me.
The gear: It will be wider, longer and probably bungee. Easier to fine tune the compression rate and I have an entire roll of industrial grade 3/8" bungee. I could change the gear bungee every month for the rest of my life and not run out...:-)
The goal is 19 degrees at 3 point. Any more than that and the gear gets absurdly long, I think it would be better to raise the tail(like a Cub fuselage) if a person wanted a steeper 3 point angle. 19 degrees will be fine for me. Close enough to stall that it should help with lowering touchdown airspeed. I will be installing VG's on the wing, so stall should be at least that...and hopefully a bit higher.
Dave Stroud:
I used an internal sleeve in that splice. I turned down a piece of 5/8 x .063 to slip into the longeron. It's then rosette welded to the longeron. An external tube over the splice would work just as well. I just didn't want to be reminded of my screw up every time I looked back there. Lol...vanity I guess.
I got the top of the cabin jigged last night. Next will be the cabane struts. I'll put up a pic when its tacked together.
Have a good day gentlemen...I intend to! 80 degrees and tee shirt weather today in the big AZ. A welcome change from the record rainfall we've had this winter.
:emoji_u1f601:
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Glad to hear you used an internal sleeve. I also would have chosen the internal one for the same reason.
But for the group at large, there are external sleeves including some that could be applied after the fact.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC43.13-1b.pdf
Download this 696 page pig
Don't print - cheaper to buy
Save it and use it
Tom XL-7
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Good stuff there Tom. Thats where I got my scarfing info.
Talking about that inner sleeve reminded me of a hairbrained idea I had while making the sleeves. In the final step of making them I sanded the last bit to fit the fuselage tubing. It occurred to me while sanding, that 4130 would polish nicely. If a fellow was REALLY trying to build as light as possible...just polish the fuselage and ditch the paint altogether. Might be hard to look at on a sunny day...but it would turn heads wherever it went.
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I have thought of that. If I could figure out a failproof bond I would consider clear mylar for the covering. Would be one amazing educational tool.
Dacron can be finished clear and ends up translucent. I have thought that would be cool. Just keep it simple-naked.
Polishing would be a lot of work. I would have to clear coat it. I would be afraid wax wouldn't last through an extended period of storage.
Many alum wheels on cars are not polished but painted. It's very durable and available in a range of finishes, even in shake cans.
For the "cheater" that might exist in a rare few of us.
Of course, I could always go P-hat pink; park it next to Spenser's 701; get a black light and open up a "head shop"
Desert tan (tird brown) and clear finished dacron would be an easy way out and would hide some of my welds.
Happy building Artic Dave
Tom XL-7
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Polished would require some elbow grease and it's longevity would depend on climate. Here in the southwest it is generally pretty arid, and a simple wipedown with a light gun oil would last a long time(years) if not stored in the weather. Having my airplane smell like Hopes #9 has a certain appeal...I love the smell of that stuff.
I haven't decided on color yet either Tom. Black tubing with orange fabric would look great I think and still is my first choice, but a red fuselage and trim on antique white keeps popping up in my thought pattern. Kinda like this Savage Bobber...
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Glad to hear you used an internal sleeve. I also would have chosen the internal one for the same reason.
But for the group at large, there are external sleeves including some that could be applied after the fact.
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC43.13-1b.pdf
Tom XL-7
picture worth 1000 words I hope
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Scott, that's a good illustration. Thanks for sharing it.
My inserts were only .0278 +/- after final sanding. I am comfortable with that, but if anyone else needs to join tubing...err on the side of caution and use Scotts drawing.
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Got a chance to peck away at the little bird today. Center section, cabane struts all in and tacked. What a PITA to get all that square...but its good now. Did a small victory jig after removing the wood jigging.
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Looking nice, Dave. I sure like the wider cabin top. Our rules allow us to stretch things a bit more and mine will look like an 82% Velie model 70 Monocoupe.
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Looking good Dave, I too like the way your center section is working out. :emoji_u1f60e:
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Thank you both ☺
The wider top just made more sense for my mission. I didn't want to drain fuel everytime I wanted to fly. Just hook it to the tow bar and tow it it to the airstrip a mile away, unfold the wings and fly. Ease of use will have me flying more often I hope.
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Looking nice, Dave. I sure like the wider cabin top. Our rules allow us to stretch things a bit more and mine will look like an 82% Velie model 70 Monocoupe.
That would be a cool little bird Dave.
When are you going to start building?
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I'm building now. All ribs and spars done, wing hardware done and 1st wing final assembly next week. I'm working with the weather seasons up here in Canada. Need to get wings assembled before Spring really hits, then weld up the fuselage in the garage as time allows. I did get the vert. stab and rudder done too but will re-do those in a shape more in keeping with the 70.
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I'm building now. All ribs and spars done, wing hardware done and 1st wing final assembly next week. I'm working with the weather seasons up here in Canada. Need to get wings assembled before Spring really hits, then weld up the fuselage in the garage as time allows. I did get the vert. stab and rudder done too but will re-do those in a shape more in keeping with the 70.
Nice! Look forward to seeing some pics. The Monocoupe was a great looking aircraft. It'll be unique...and I like that.
I have been considering rounding the tail a bit too, maybe similar to a Cub tail. Still in the thinking stage on that.
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Darren Compton did a real nice job on a new shape for his tail feathers. More or less Cub like. He's got a builder's blog somewhere but I can't find a link to it.
But, Hey....I just looked thru some photos here and I see Bill Utt is building a Sky Pup. I built and flew one back in the '80's. Very easy plane to build and fly....
where'd the time go, eh ?
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Darren Compton did a real nice job on a new shape for his tail feathers. More or less Cub like. He's got a builder's blog somewhere but I can't find a link to it.
That would be here: http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=ontherun&project=2554&category=11536 (http://www.mykitlog.com/users/category.php?user=ontherun&project=2554&category=11536)
Navigation is on the right...
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Hi Dave.
Here's a link that shows the final shape of the tail.
Have been happy with the result.
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=ontherun&project=2554&category=0&log=236693&row=22
Darren :)
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Darren, that is an extremely helpful build log. Looks like you'll be airborne soon!
I really like the way you did the tailfeathers. Very nice.
How many yards of the Oratex did you end up using?
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The people at Oratex were great and gave me some extra meters as it was on the roll anyway.
Looking back the Oratex techs estimated 25 meters total however I am unsure of the final number of meters used. The wings were 7 meters each.
Am somewhat held up as the company who is painting the fuselage have a bit of work on but it shouldn't be too long.
Still need to do the final assembly and have it inspected. In the mean time I have getting some flying under my belt in a Jabiru and sorting out the TW endorsement.
Cheers
Darren :)
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Thanks Darren!
I got the tailboom all tacked up yesterday. I have the little 1/2" tubes to support the lower seat bar to fit today and then it's off the bench for a good photo I hope.
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All tacked up and 33 lbs
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Nice one, Dave. Your weight will give me some good numbers to compare to. I should get going on my fuselage next week or so.
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Thanks Dave.
Still going to add a lb or so of filler rod and all the mounting tabs for stuff, but should still come in at or just under 40 after paint. I'm satisfied with that. A few pounds heavier than standard, but I knew it would. Overall happy with the way it turned out.
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Comic relief for the day.
My buddy James at the helm. Fan and a speaker blasting VW engine noise added to the realism.
I confess to taking it for a ride too...
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You've come up with a good idea for the upper cabin width, Dave. Plenty of shoulder room and now enough width at the top to enclose the bugger if you want or at least keep your head somewhat away from the breeze.
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Thanks Dave.
It's wide enough to strap a mini max wing tank up there. Doors may be added down the road a bit. There is plenty of room to close a door and not squeeze your head!
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I've got my eyes on the Minimax tank too. I was thinking to mount it up there with a filler and vent, then feeding it down to a smaller header tank with a gauge on it. Six gallons up top and maybe two up front for gauge / reserve.
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Spooky how we all think along similar lines. Was going to do the something close. A small wedge reserve tank forward of the instrument panel with a sight hose on the panel itself...
You're all going to laugh at this. It's pretty damn comfortable though, and not heavy either. It also folds forward to access that space behind the seat.
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I've been too damn sick to get much done the last week...but managed to finish welding all the clusters today. Uglier than snot...but strong with probably way too much filler rod.
Also laid out my gear fittings today. I dropped the airleron pulley hole to eliminate the standoff bracket and keep them all matched. I decided to just make the fronts the same...the angle was fine for the spring strut support tubes. I believe I can add some lightening holes around the pulley bolt holes to cut some weight.
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Looks great..! :emoji_u1f646:
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Nice progress, Dave ! Keep those pics coming....
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Thanks guys :emoji_u1f60e:
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Dave....I'm taking another look at your seat and I like the clever approach. Those holes along the sides are set up so you could lengthen or shorten the seat to suit any pilot ? What type of canvas have you used and did you just take it to a canvas person / custom tarp fabricator to get sewn up ? The folding back is a great idea. Thanks.
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It's a repurposed deck chair :emoji_u1f601:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS-PADDED-LOUNGER-XL/1748326.uts
The bottom section of frame was damaged a couple of years ago by alcohol and poor judgement. Its been sitting in storage since then. With all the grommets on the side you can adjust to whatever length needed. I've got a bit of yoga mat that I was going to slip in there for extra padding.
I think that crossbar that forms the normal seat bottom in the airframe will grow teeth after sitting in it awhile...hopefully the padding will alleviate some of that.
Not sure on what it weighs. I'm estimating ~3- 4 lbs when its laced up with the yoga mat pad inside the bottom. Not incredibly svelte, but lighter than the 6 lb Black Max seat I was looking at....cheaper too.
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Yesterday I made all 8 of the landing gear/wing strut fittings and started fiddling with the tailwheel assembly.
Started by drilling 5/8" holes in my .090 sheet stock. Then I rough cut all the fittings out with a cut off wheel on a grinder. Using a scap piece of 5/8 tubing to locate all the parts I shaped and drilled all fittings at once. They turned out nice. I decided to go ahead with a couple of lightening holes. Finished product are all virtually identical and weigh in at 3 oz apiece.
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Artic, that's the way to do it! That's the way the Eagles are supposed to be built! No need for computer modeling and laser jet cutting.
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Thanks Tom
:emoji_u1f601:
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Artic, that's the way to do it! That's the way the Eagles are supposed to be built! No need for computer modeling and laser jet cutting.
That is so true, if " are supposed" would be traded for "could be"
Basing most of this on the simple approach that "time is money" for a lot of folks. in my case, I can cut all the parts out as shown in about 10 minutes... so I could do it one way, or I can do another way...All depends on what you have and how you use it. AS in nearly all aircraft there is about 6 different ways to do something.
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Dave, I'm not an expert, but I remember from the studies that leaving the rectangles in the structure badly affects of its strength. In my opinion in place of element parallel to the leading edge over your head should be one or two diagonals (like Leonard do in his CE). Just check it with more than me experienced person for your safety. Maybe in this case all is OK.
Do not take it as a critic, your work looks just impressive.
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Hey Scott, I'm not putting down the capabilities of CAD/CAM. Your clear and precise drawings have been a big help to many, I'm sure.
My comments derive from reading of some who seem to get stalled out trying to get a part made, when all they have to do is "get after it", and, before long, the job is done.
Knowing the Eagles for what they are, I'm still leaning toward the "should be" direction, but, as you say, there are many methods, and each should use what is available.
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Dave, I'm not an expert, but I remember from the studies that leaving the rectangles in the structure badly affects of its strength. In my opinion in place of element parallel to the leading edge over your head should be one or two diagonals (like Leonard do in his CE). Just check it with more than me experienced person for your safety. Maybe in this case all is OK.
Do not take it as a critic, your work looks just impressive.
Good eye! I ran out of 1/2" tubing and have to order a bit more. The plan was a diagonal in each of those rectangles.
Never worry about critiquing what I'm doing...that's why it's here. The hope is, someone will spot anything too out of line and say something. I have a pretty thick skin and have been known to make mistakes :emoji_u1f609:
Tom...I knew what you meant and I agree. Computers have a place, but so does just doing it! In my 30 year career as a diesel mechanic/ fabricator I have seen many new kids start off in our shop trying to over engineer a simple part. Hell...I was once one of those "kids". It only took me an hour to fab those gear fittings the old school way. If a person has access to the programs and cutting equipment, then by all means use it! I don't however, and I don't feel my bird will suffer because of it.
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Okay, did something a bit different for the tailwheel. Keep in mind, that when I do something in an oddball fashion...it's normally motivated by the desire to use whats available to me. Well....sometimes I'm just weird.
So far it's lighter than the 1.5" leaf spring I have sitting here.
It may not work...only testing will validate it, but so far it appears to be strong enough and the spring rate seems spot on. It will just kiss the bump stop with all my weight on the tail. It's a Ford valve spring....Lol
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Okay, did something a bit different for the tailwheel. Keep in mind, that when I do something in an oddball fashion...it's normally motivated by the desire to use whats available to me. Well....sometimes I'm just weird.
So far it's lighter than the 1.5" leaf spring I have sitting here.
It may not work...only testing will validate it, but so far it appears to be strong enough and the spring rate seems spot on. It will just kiss the bump stop with all my weight on the tail. It's a Ford valve spring....Lol
Dave, I am just playing devils advocate here. Not saying this won't work.
But by your photos, when you get side load on the tail wheel (and we know that happens) the vertical spring with rubber stop, can't do much for your side load, and I don't think you want to transfer this same load to the front cross pin. While I have not done the math on it, that might be a tuff call for the U bracket and front cross pin to NOT bend or wallow out.
second thing to consider- if you can hit the rubber stop with just your weight on occasion, then you may want to consider what a 1G or even 2 G landing might imply for your tail loads. YOU won't be able to count on the short amount trailing your Ford valve spring to flex much.
Now I know, money cost for each part of the plane rules a lot, but going how Sam B, did his or some of the Kolb 7075 spring stingers might be something to consider, both way would not put you into a situation like above...
Just food for thought.
Oh yes, there is also how the back yard flyer did/does their's NO spring at all.
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Scott...your thoughts mirror my own. If you look at one of the pics posted earlier there is a shot of the upside down tailpost. There is a slotted cap that was welded on the bottom. That slot engages a pin that runs through the center of the spring and is welded through the swingarm. That in theory should alleviate the side loads on the pivot pin during turning. Is it enough? Good question...
The spring rate is an experiment. Leonards weight & balance sheet included with the plans showed ~50 lbs on the tailwheel loaded. I guesstimated a possible 200 lb load back there if I get sloppy with a landing. I'm 220 right now. I think it may be enough but I'll hook it to the quad and pull it around the yard and beat the snot out of it awhile. If it bottoms too easy or wants to bend off to the side, I do have an 1 1/2" leaf spring I can make a new one. It just felt too stiff in flexing tests.
As always thanks for the input!
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Progress on the tailwheel today. Initial results seemed promising. Will do further testing once the landing gear is finished.
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Looking good Dave!
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Thank you Frank!
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I'm welding the gear fittings to the fuselage and would like some feedback from prior builders. If you look at the pics below... on the rear fittings, the upright(to the seat back) slants rearward causing a triangular shaped gap. I was planning on just cutting a small triangle of .090 to fill that gap.
Is that the proper way to do it? Or do you just leave the gap there?
Thanks!
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Ounces add up to make pounds...
Welding looks awesome.
:emoji_u1f646:
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Ounces add up to make pounds...
Welding looks awesome.
:emoji_u1f646:
Muchas gracias Dan.
I didn't want to add something not needed if I can help it. That bracket has a death grip on the fuselage as it is.
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I'm welding the gear fittings to the fuselage and would like some feedback from prior builders. If you look at the pics below... on the rear fittings, the upright(to the seat back) slants rearward causing a triangular shaped gap. I was planning on just cutting a small triangle of .090 to fill that gap.
Is that the proper way to do it? Or do you just leave the gap there?
Thanks!
I am still searching in your photos for this gap? Are you meaning a gap in a cluster? or a gap in a bracket after welding, or neither?
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This gap Scott. Between the fitting and the cluster.
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After pondering all evening and again this morning... I'm going to cut a wedge of .090 and weld it into that gap. I could find no pictures of prior Eagles, except a couple from Steve Kiblinger's site, that show that area in detail. He filled that gap in too. So if you're out there Steve, thanks for the pics!
:emoji_u1f60a:
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Hard testing of my tailwheel found the weakness. The nicely bent tubing yoke started to deform under severe loads. It didn't fail, but you can see the deformation right in the middle of the bend.
So I made a new style caster frame with no bent tubing. It's not as elegant as the prior version, but it survived the same test that killed the other one. A fat guy jumping on it like a pogo stick!
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Hard testing of my tailwheel found the weakness. The nicely bent tubing yoke started to deform under severe loads. It didn't fail, but you can see the deformation right in the middle of the bend.
So I made a new style caster frame with no bent tubing. It's not as elegant as the prior version, but it survived the same test that killed the other one. A fat guy jumping on it like a pogo stick!
In order for others to learn- what tubing dia. did you use and wall thickness- As I have built over 200 tail wheels, I find this interesting, and would venture to guess it was more "how it was welded" and cooled, than the tubing. But then again, if it was some .035 wall material, (and under .750") it would explain much.
Also if the yoke arms are built to go around the tire, this makes the cross tube much shorter, thus stronger in bend moments. Picture a 10" wrench vs a 20" wrench, the power to the nut end, can double just from leverage. Much of the same can be said on the strength of the cross tube, if longer than need be. A 2" wide tire, could easily get down to a 2-2.5" cross tube (not very long) and far stronger than a 3" cross tube of the same size.
I am not sure how you formed it, but general putting a U bend or slight bend, "helps" to some degree in the center bending moment. Many details go into it.
I build for up to 2500 # gross aircraft and use a strait 1" tube, but .049 or .058 wall depending on future loads. But how it is attached to the king post of the tail wheel is entirely different, as I have a sleeve on the king pin, that surrounds the cross tube, and this gets all the welding, vs one side. Just thoughts
best of success.
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It was 5/8 .035 Scott.
I believe .049 or higher would not have deformed as this one did. I used a much heavier tube under the kingpin this time, 3/4 .049. I also made it as short as possible...just enough to clear the wheel. 2 3/4" I think.
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It's a repurposed deck chair :emoji_u1f601:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/CABELAS-PADDED-LOUNGER-XL/1748326.uts
The bottom section of frame was damaged a couple of years ago by alcohol and poor judgement. Its been sitting in storage since then. With all the grommets on the side you can adjust to whatever length needed. I've got a bit of yoga mat that I was going to slip in there for extra padding.
I think that crossbar that forms the normal seat bottom in the airframe will grow teeth after sitting in it awhile...hopefully the padding will alleviate some of that.
Not sure on what it weighs. I'm estimating ~3- 4 lbs when its laced up with the yoga mat pad inside the bottom. Not incredibly svelte, but lighter than the 6 lb Black Max seat I was looking at....cheaper too.
The seat in the XL needs to be strong enough to withstand a hard arrival, probably talking about at least 3-4 Gs. Most deck chairs are good for ~250 lbs, the pilot bouncing the plane in from three feet will put far more load than that on the seat. When the seat fails the pilot ends up sitting (straddling?) the elevator cables and control torque tube. ...Ouch....use care when designing an alternate seat.
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I had the unfortunate experience of briefly witnessing a chair just like that hold a bouncing load well in excess of 500 lbs and survive. The sling material is quite stout and at least 2 layers thick.
I will heed your advice Sam and proceed cautiously. Maybe testing its twin to destruction? I'll come up with something appropriate.
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Have not had much chance to work on the plane much lately, but I have managed to frame up the legs. Starting on the suspension struts this weekend hopefully.
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I got started on the bungee struts yesterday. Got one strut end made before the drill press broke 😕
I needed one end thinner than the tube I made the strut from, so this how I narrowed the end without losing strength. I "milled" the end of the tubing with a hand grinder equipped with a flap wheel. Then cut and shaped two tabs to weld on the now flat faces of the tubing. Next, I drilled a 3/8 hole for a bushing and welded the bushing in place. After a bit of shaping with a flap wheel, the final step was welding a securing strap around the end of the whole assembly. It came out nice :-)
Off to the hardware store for a drill press this morning...
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I got started on the bungee struts yesterday. Got one strut end made before the drill press broke 😕
Nice airplane parts...
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Nice airplane parts...
Thanks Dan.
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Finished the first bungee strut today. It will be safety cabled to a travel of 3" with a preload of ~1". That leaves lots of travel left to deal with runway irregularities. I cut all the pieces for the second one as I built the first, so it should just be an assembly job. Looking forward to the little bird sitting on her own legs 😊
The shadows make the 3rd pic hard to see, but it shows the strut installed.
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The Desert Eagle is finally sitting on its own legs! :-)
This has been the hardest part of the build so far. Everything has to be just so...or caster and camber get all out of whack. A lot of detail that pictures will never show and headscratchers only a fellow builder will understand, but I'm happy with the results.
Now I need to get real wheels and tires for it...those little hand truck tires are just for moving it around easily.
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Looking great Dave,
I feel your pain on the gear, I rebuilt mine with an extra 2" in height.
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Looking great Dave,
I feel your pain on the gear, I rebuilt mine with an extra 2" in height.
Thank you Frank!
It was a pain in the royal @$$, but I can run up to a 67" prop and still have 12" of ground clearance. Ya know... just in case I'm ever in a position to pick up a 3vw :emoji_u1f60e:
Otherwise its lots of room to help keep my prop from flicking rocks and sand.
EDIT******* that was original bigger version*****
I have 12 1/2 " of clearance with a 58" prop. Duh...my memory sucks at times. I shortened the gear because it was hard to get into. Station 2 sits at 30"H straight and level.
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Now that the little bird is sitting on its own legs, being able to sit in it has become the priority. I gave Sam's advice some careful thought and decided to compromise. I kept the folding aspect but used Mr. Milholland's woven aluminum.
After sitting on both, there isn't a whole lot of difference and the aluminum is supposedly stronger and IS lighter....and MUCH cooler :-)
The canvas was too damn hot.
Ruby hung out for awhile, but she got bored and went back inside. 100° is hard on a black dog
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I need to solicit some advice...
I'm working on the control stick assembly and would like to know how much the stick moves fore and aft?
When I mock my parts into place, I only have ~ 3" between the stick and the seat bar. Is that enough? or should I try and move it forward more?
Thanks
Dave