Eagler's Nest
Airframes => Single Seaters => XL => Topic started by: 914pete on September 12, 2017, 06:18:30 AM
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"aircraft type crimp only" is noted on page 3 of the XL plans. I have a swage tool I bought from HD
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-18-in-Swaging-Tool-43834/205887557
to make some stainless stay wires for my brother in laws Hobie Cat.
Are commercial swage tools different from "aircraft" swage tools?
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I have a swage tool from HD also, maybe the same one. It works fine. To be sure of the crimp, there are specs on the final squashing. You should be able to find the specs and procedure for crimping in AC 43-13, which is available free online.
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Kitplanes article on what to watch for... Definitely get the correct Nicopress sleeves for your wire type and the gauge.
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almost all swag tools are (if they cost $100 or less) made for fence wire work. And some have a go- no go- wire gage. That being said, many if not nearly all local FBO's with a mechanic on hand, will have a full blown swagging tool that could/should ease your mind when flying. (if you use theirs)
You have to measure your center to center bolt hole anyway. (there is a good reason why RANS aircraft has 4 holes on each end tab) to get tension just right if not using turn buckle. A little tape on each wire with measurements noted and a few minutes at the FBO (first thing with his or her morning coffee might go a long ways)
This of course is just a suggestion... so many ways to skin the cat here.
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Good article from Dan. But, I did not see the dimensions for the go/no go gauge that is mentioned for checking the after-swage sleeve dimensions, which it describes is of paramount importance, although the article did say there was some variation between gauges from various manufacturers.
Don't know if 43-13 is right or wrong, but Table 7-5 shows the after-swaging shank diameter in the far right column.
If 43-13 is wrong in those dimensions, it would be nice if the article showed the correct dimensions.
I use the cheap knock-off tool, which has some adjustment, but always check the finished dimension with a gauge or measure it.
Proceed with good information and care.
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Military Standard MS51844 Revised 10/14/2012 attached. This was downloaded from Nicopress.com and should only be used on Nicopress sleeves. Manufacturers data takes precedent over AC 4313.
I have read where it is not recommended to use a dial caliper to check these dimensions. Only use the gague...
This begs the question what do you check the go gauge with then.
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Have enjoyed the expansion of the question so some food for thought.
WE have specs (govt or MIL spec or FFA guidelines) to check the overall size of the compression sleeve, but sometimes don't have a call out for the actual sleeve size (a vital part of this dimension check)
So would be a good reason to use the specs or gage that came with the sleeves. (they are all NOT nico-press)
Pretty simple as to why the calipers don't do the job, that is simply the press does not make a perfect round finished squeeze. (simple as that) if you don't have a perfect round shape, then running a caliper would give you many dimensions depending on "where" you measured.
I have a $4000 rolling press machine, but in the case of the XL, the need for it should be zero... How DO YOU KNOW? Pretty simple, test a few of your crimps with the same cable and tension that you be having...if you get to the max specified breaking weight of the cable, I am not sure you going to do much better. (how could you?) If after your test, you don't have any broken strands, or signs of undo compression, again you should be good to go.
This has been done for years and years, on much larger craft, so your not breaking new ground, just doing what has already proven to work.
cheers!
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Dan, that MS51844 shows the specs for the manufactured sleeves, unused, but does not show the acceptable squash dimensions.
I have to retract my reference to Table 7-5; it is not applicable to oval sleeve installation. This table refers to "straight shank terminal dimensions", a whole different animal.
Table 7-6 shows the approx. length after compression, but not the final diameter of the squashed area, so that is not helpful.
The gauge that I have came with a bar type sleeve compression tool, and simply has a slot with a certain width cut into a piece of steel sheet for each size of sleeves. If the gauge slides over the squashed area, then it is good. If the gauge does not slide over it, then it is not compressed enough, which the article notes is often the reason for sleeve failure.
The gauge has the ATS (Aviation Tool Supply) logo on it.
The slots on the gauge measure as follows:
1/16" oval, 1/16" stop --- 0.185" width
3/32" oval, 3/32" - 1/8" stop --- 0.255" width
1/8" oval, 5/32"-3/16"-7/32" stop --- 0.349" width
Are these dimensions good for any sleeve you may purchase from an aircraft supplier? Are they good for the lever type compressors, too?
Here are some gauge dimensions from someone on another list that he says are from a Nicopress gauge:
1/16" Nico - 0.1885"
3/32" Nico - 0.2510"
1/8" Nico - 0.3400"
5/32" Nico - 0.3740
3/16" Nico - 0.4755"
All this stuff is interesting, and the answer to the original question may be "they are all different".
Just saw Scottiniowa comment on making some cables with your sleeves and tool and test them. That's probably the way to go.
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Thanks Tom... I did not look at the spec sheet close enough. I will have take another stab at it later...
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Tom,
I found the same numbers as you on the SuperCub forum. I assume someone took their calipers and measured the Nicopress gauge.
Also I assume there are no published numbers on the "after swage" diameter because they want to sell the gauge.
I rarely say this, but I give up on finding these numbers on the internet.
The numbers you sent in may be the best we can get.
Best to follow the known standard of using the gauge from the manufacturer of the sleeves you are using, and make sure you have the right ones for the cable you are using...
I include the post I found below:
The following are the approximate dimensions of the "go" gauges for Nico pressing (the ones I have anyhow!).
Remember you want a diameter SMALLER than this number if your squeezes are good. (Larger if you have screwed up and they are not good!)
1/16" Nico - 0.1885"
3/32" Nico - 0.2510"
1/8" Nico - 0.3400"
5/32" Nico - 0.3740
3/16" Nico - 0.4755"
Happy squeezing!
Wayne
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Good article Dan. Thanks for sharing. According to the article the HD brand swage tool is not appropriate however, I made a sample cable using 3/32 SS 7x7 cable and the appropriate MS51844-83 tin plated Nico oval sleeve and correct thimble. After swaging I measured the crimps with a digital caliper taking great care with positioning it. I use calipers daily for my job and really don't see how it would be less accurate then using a stamped tool. One crimp was .244" and the other .245" which, according to the measurements below, should be more then sufficient. I will also prepare a destruction test of this sample cable.
Also mentioned in the article is the number a crimps per sleeve and stated its tool/sleeve specific. According to table 7-6 it mentions 3/32 cable "requires" 1 press? Am I reading that right? I just assumed do as many crimps as would evenly fit. I could fit 2 crimps with my tool. It would seem to me two crimps are better then one.
After reading the article and examining my HD tool I did notice it is adjustable which is nice. I also noticed that one side of the tool crimp surface measures .152" and the other .165". Does anyone know if the Nico or Locoloc etc. tools have different width crimp surfaces? I'm assuming the more expensive tools have the same crimp surface on each side.
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This one has the number of crimps per sleeve size... Attached.
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This one has the number of crimps per sleeve size... Attached.
Excellent! Thank you.