Eagler's Nest

General Category => Off Topics and General Interest => Topic started by: Murray Randall on July 04, 2014, 05:47:26 PM

Title: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: Murray Randall on July 04, 2014, 05:47:26 PM: Here is a photo of a carbon fiber cove filling the wing section in front of the aileron. I wanted to fill that concave gap, couldn't see how I could do it with fabric, never can get steamed or wet plywood to form close to the desired radius of the bend, its springs back, aluminum doesn't bond well to wood with T88. So I got a 4 inch PVC sewer pipe for ten bucks from Lowes. Its OD in 4.1875, perfect!! I had a roll of EXPENSIVE 6 in wide carbon fiber, laid up one layer using polyster resin, trimed to fit. After trim the piece weighs 5.5 oz. I also laid up a cove using two plys of standard old fiberglass but it was 8.5 oz and stiffer than necessary. Then tried one layer of fberglass but that was way to flimsy. No I don't recommend that you do this. Mini Maxes leave it open and as I recall the XL drawings call for fabric. But the carbon fiber is available from Jamestown Marine Supply.
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: Steve on July 04, 2014, 06:31:11 PM: Murray:
You are doing little stuff - one of these days (soon) that baby is going together for the 3rd & final time... Have you done a (wet) run with the latex paint metering cup?...
http://wienerdogaero.com/LatexViscosity.php (http://wienerdogaero.com/LatexViscosity.php)
Steve
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: Murray Randall on July 04, 2014, 07:12:40 PM: Jeeze Steve I spend WAY to much time messing around as it is and you want me to go off on Latex?!?! Isn't the latex quite a bit heavier than dopes regardless? I've used Randolph dopes a bunch, Stits once. The 1.7 oz dacron is a mighty fine tight weave. It should fill with a min of dope! My plan is to do a tail surface with Randolph, get the weight added and compare it to the latex that is getting documented. Next thought: We beat rib stitching around a time or 3. OK OK I don't mind rib stitching but the compression struts are telling me you do every other rib and then you will everybody only half mad.
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: rockiedog2 on July 04, 2014, 07:32:00 PM: I'm using hardware store AL flashing on the aileron cove on this new one. Nail it on with aircraft nails, goes on easy. i miced it one time and seems like it was 012. I got a bentup 016 angle at the top and bottom of the cove for the fabric to pull against. It's gonna be all right...

Anybody know anything about Tom Steedman? He disappeared...
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: Sam Buchanan on July 04, 2014, 07:46:45 PM: Quote from: Murray Randall on July 04, 2014, 05:47:26 PM
.......aluminum doesn't bond well to wood with T88........
I didn't know that..... ;)

So I made coves out of super light-weight aluminum roof flashing (about $10 for both wings).

(https://www.eaglersnest.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.hiwaay.net%2F%7Esbuc%2FlegaleagleXL%2Fwing-15.jpg&hash=92c9a3a67d1f20262a78f6d89d8835966983b04b)

Yes, the coves were bonded to the wood wing with T-88 (sand the aluminum first) and they proved to be well-attached. A few pulled rivets stabilize the cove and fasten the lengths of cove together:

(https://www.eaglersnest.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.hiwaay.net%2F%7Esbuc%2FlegaleagleXL%2Fwing-16.jpg&hash=5c6af1fdf67189b9e9ee0fff2fd725709cedb72a)

Turned out quite nice!

(https://www.eaglersnest.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.hiwaay.net%2F%7Esbuc%2FlegaleagleXL%2Fwing-17.jpg&hash=1ccbbdaed09c85b092b892b1b1e1c1700656e524)

The fabric wraps around the coves and after gluing and shrinking those coves ain't going anywhere...even if they weren't bonded to the wood.
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: Murray Randall on July 04, 2014, 08:00:10 PM: My first try was the alumin flashing copying straight from your site Sam, but every time I tried to get the tight acute angle bend backs at the top and bottom using my finger brake the alum broke. You got nice sharp bends and I needed to blunt them way too much.
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: rockiedog2 on July 05, 2014, 05:55:27 AM: Quote from: Sam Buchanan on July 04, 2014, 07:52:59 PM

I've wondered about Tom. He disappeared shortly after the visit to my hangar and XL-58...with his wife. Maybe something about this whole Eagle thing didn't sit well with someone. I had him sit in the plane and make airplane noises but Tom is not a pilot and maybe building/flying an Eagle looked a bit more involved than at first glance.

Or..I may have this all wrong. Life can sometimes get in the way of our hobbies. Maybe he will see this and give us an update.
He came to OSH several yeas ago and mixed it up with the Eaglers. Seemed like he had a great time. Went over to Johnson's; hung out around PuttPutt and the Slug.
You out there lurking Steedman? we're wondering about you...
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: Tom XL-7 on July 05, 2014, 07:01:26 PM: Joe, Sam should have videoed me getting in XL-58. Could have made some cash selling copies. Like some rat in an approach avoidance experiment.( that's where you offer the hungry rat some food but he gets a shock every time he goes for it, leaving a completely indecisive animal) XL-58 looks near perfect just like the photos and I was weighing in at 275. Just did not want to park my can on that 5/8-.035 and slide in. Did not want to be the guy who modified it. But in we got and out also without folding it up. So thanks Sam ,fit well and I won't have to waste any time with a mock up to see how it fits.
Well about that time yahoo improved to the point of me leaving the social network experience. Some of you may realize that can be a good thing. Frees up a lot of time for other things, but sadly not XL-7.
I kept an eye on this site rarely to near daily now.
Talk about your indecisive rat, I am taking the last week off this month but don't know what I am going to do with it. I have not been to Oshkosh in a few years, but it seems silly to go be a spectator when there is an real airplane to build. On the other hand it has been on the back burner so long what's another week?
The trip might fire me up to get after it.
You know Joe I thought you may have liked the peace and quiet. Now that the ice is broken I might get rid of that "newbie" thing. Or is that a noobie? No that's almost something else!
Tom XL-7
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: Sam Buchanan on July 05, 2014, 08:13:31 PM: Good to hear from you, Tom!

Glad the visit to XL-58 didn't spook you. Go ahead and make the trip to OSH, should get the fire relit.

Joe needs you. :)
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: mmorrison123 on July 06, 2014, 09:40:21 AM: Murray:

Latex might not be as heavy as you think. I weighted a test sample of 1.8 oz cloth and after 6 thinned coats of primer and 4 thinned color coats it only picked up 0.4 oz per square foot.

Malcolm Morrison
wienerdogaero.com
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: Tom XL-7 on July 06, 2014, 10:10:16 AM: Well now that the old ladies are done talking about people behind their backs ---well actually straight to their face in the e- mail way- On the subject of alum cove. ( we do have a few things going on here don't we)
The first thing comes to mind on the breaking alum is a sharp corner, as in no radius at the bend. Otherwise temper and alloy of the sheet.
The crap from the hardware store that roofers use has always been forgiving to me. I don't bend alum sheet on a brake, what I have is called a bender. It has a radius and doesn't have the death grip that real brakes deliver. Mine is 96" left over from a window and door operation I ran in the 90's. ( I know -sounds like Shane rippin off the old people. Big difference is I made a lot of friends instead of a lot of money!) I have never regretted buying tools.
Tom XL-7
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: Murray Randall on July 06, 2014, 06:30:51 PM: The calculator says that an .010 alum cove weighs 7.3 oz and the carbon fiber weighs 5.5 oz. Not enough to carry the cost diff No regrets here though I like the carbon fiber cove, glad I did it. My finger brake can be set to large gap suggesting that it will make a big radius, but no it does the bulk of the bending right at the finger, but does not get a tight enough angle, so I give it a little pinch. Thats when the alum brakes, during the pinch 4 oz per sq foot for the latex is a good bargain!!!! Good on weight better on cost. I keep getting knocked around on the fabric finishing. So maybe I'll go latex if it gets into the cold New England weather. I do all the dope when the relative humidity is better than 20% with a HVLP sys under the bifold hangar door. Latex frees you up on application conditions..
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: rockiedog2 on July 07, 2014, 05:15:54 PM: Quote from: Tom XL-7 on July 05, 2014, 07:01:26 PM
Joe, Sam should have videoed me getting in XL-58. Could have made some cash selling copies. Like some rat in an approach avoidance experiment.( that's where you offer the hungry rat some food but he gets a shock every time he goes for it, leaving a completely indecisive animal) XL-58 looks near perfect just like the photos and I was weighing in at 275. Just did not want to park my can on that 5/8-.035 and slide in. Did not want to be the guy who modified it. But in we got and out also without folding it up. So thanks Sam ,fit well and I won't have to waste any time with a mock up to see how it fits.
Well about that time yahoo improved to the point of me leaving the social network experience. Some of you may realize that can be a good thing. Frees up a lot of time for other things, but sadly not XL-7.
I kept an eye on this site rarely to near daily now.
Talk about your indecisive rat, I am taking the last week off this month but don't know what I am going to do with it. I have not been to Oshkosh in a few years, but it seems silly to go be a spectator when there is an real airplane to build. On the other hand it has been on the back burner so long what's another week?
The trip might fire me up to get after it.
You know Joe I thought you may have liked the peace and quiet. Now that the ice is broken I might get rid of that "newbie" thing. Or is that a noobie? No that's almost something else!
Tom XL-7

well this is more like it...not quite like old times yet but improving.

Steedman has come back out of exile for about the 3rd or 4th time; seemingly his old self and ready to get back involved with the eaglers. we needed you Steedman since you are one of the veteran turds. glad youre back. you need to get on your xl Tom.

Utt has done his first solo, taken his new plane up for its first flight, and survived his first crash all in the same flight. That's pretty good even by Eagler standards. Congratulations Utt and may the rest of your crashes not be any worse than your first one.

And Thoum has disrespected me n Johnson by rudely giving us the silent treatment while we tried to help him out briefing him in on the OSH arrival. No acknowledgement whatsoever, I guess the advice didn't set well with him somehow. I could almost feel him giving us the fanghur. Just like in the old days back on the yahoo list.

I'm encouraged...there may be hope around here after all. What we need now is a good fuss.
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: bill utt on July 07, 2014, 06:10:20 PM: OOOH yeah! things do seem to sound familiar.
almost feels like home!
I didn't crash! You trouble maker.
Title: Re: CARBON EAGLE?
Post by: Tom H on July 08, 2014, 10:38:09 AM: A little touchy there, huh, Spencer? The truth is that you and Johnson came back with so much advice and homework for me to do before I could make an answer. That NOTAM for Osh is 32 pages long. A lot to chew. Then, I found the rockers and pushrods had clashed in Stubby and got sidetracked sorting that out. Almost overwhelming.

I appreciate your advice and opinions; although maybe don't always take it. So, dry up the tears.