Is it possible to build Part 103 legal LE XL with 20lbf heavier engine?

[wojtekseta]

Hello Eaglers!
My name is Wojtek (pronunciation Voytek) , I'm from Warsaw, Poland. It is my first post on the forum (please forgive me my english). I read yahoo group an next Eagler's Nest from years.
My LE XL and Betterhalf plans has arrived yesterday, but I don't know the numbers yet - I'm in hospital now (hip problem).
I would like ask you about use the other than 1/2 VW motor for LE XL - heavier about 20lbf. If it is possible I will try to use BMW R1200 motor without reductor. In my opinion the engine could replace 1/2 or even full VW motor. You can see my early test of R1200 on . I'm sure the engine has big potential - 55HP / 3600 with weight about 120 LBF with oil, carbs, exhaust and dual ignition.
If you are interested, I will explain my thoughts in new thread in 2 cylinder section. Please just let me know.

But main question is in the thread title (I know I will have CG problem and have to move wing).
Thank you in advance for your comments
Wojtek.

[wojtekseta]

In this thread please help me with my main question - thanks.
Tomorrow i will create the thread about the engine (here in Europe is late especcially in hospital).

Wojtek.

[Dan_]

In this thread please help me with my main question - thanks.
Tomorrow i will create the thread about the engine (here in Europe is late especcially in hospital).

Wojtek.

Wojtek,

I'm rather certain it would be near impossible to make US part 103 weight. 

However it should be easy to meet EU  rules.

Get well soon.

[wojtekseta]

Dan,
Thank you for your good wishes.



In Poland exist two categorries where LE XL can be located:
 - airplane with MTOW under 300 kg (660 lbf) - building under gevernment agency supervision - pracitically impossible. Polish builders builds aircrafts under Czech supervision  



- powered flying device with empty weight under 115 kg (254 lbf) as US Part 103 - building without ANY supervision, but the device can be checked if fullfils the requirements of regulation.
My XL must weight under 115kg dry. If it will be impossible with BMW I will build Betterhalf.



Wojtek

[Dan_]

Do you have a weight allowance for a recovery chute..? 


BMW is a nice engine. 

[wojtekseta]

In first case (MTOW to 300kg) you can add 15 kg for recovery system, in second case (empty 115) - not.

[ArcticDave]

Get it inspected with a half vw...change to the BMW later 

I have a feeling if you build a a strong half veedub 82 stroke x 94mm pistons, you'll enjoy it just fine and won't bother with anything bigger. 

The Verner 3 vw radial looks to be a great option if you have the funds. 

Good luck on your recovery.

[wojtekseta]

Thank you Dave ,
If I will have 1/2 VW then I will use my R1200 for Airboat   .
Verner Scarlet 3? She is beautiful and in my opinion perfectly suited to the nature of the LE.  But she has to have a huge propeller - what about the ground clearence? In my opinion the chassis should be redesigned. Cost of the engine in my home should be comparable with Hummel 37 HP  with transportation and customs.

Betterhalf construction is a pretty big and complicated project, availiabilty of parts (tunning parts) in Europe is worse than in the USA. Time, shipping costs etc. But If I will not be able to slim down the airframe, I will build it.

I',m in home now and started analising plans (LE XL-G-19 ) and I see that will be very difficult to substact 20 lbf from the airframe.

[Dave Stroud]

Wojtek...if you need a 2 cyl VW converted engine, I have one for sale. I will ship worldwide.. Email me    dwstroud  at   xplornet.com if interested. I will go with the 3 cyl Verner with a slightly larger plane ( Model 70 Monocoupe replica  ) as we have less restrictions in Canada. It is a good professional build and Scott Cassler has been involved with it. Electronic and mag for dual ignition.

[ArcticDave]

Glad you're out of the hospital quickly.
The Scarlett really does appear to be an outstanding choice. I wish I could afford one...I'd install it yesterday! Longer landing gear is about the worst of the needed modifications. Well worth it for the added thrust of the bigger prop. Check out Franks XL thread in the XL subsection. He is building with the Verner and I think we're all anxious to see it fly
 

[wojtekseta]

Dave Stroud,
I answered PM


ArcticDave,
I'm also watching the Franks thread and I'm looking forward to a successful first start.

Concerning weight savings - I can replace BlackMax wheels with brakes with BMX wheels without brakes (should be few pounds, but I don't know how many). I think I can do lighter rear suspension (composite or aluminium). Tube struts in place of streamlined? Aluminium fuel tank? Lighter instruments (I can do electronic speedometer, altimeter, engine instruments).
What do you think about that?
What more?

[ArcticDave]

Tube struts instead of the streamlined ones save around 8 lbs by what I've seen reported.  I'm not sure of the wisdom of doing anything to lighten the tail area. CG is pretty far forward as it is and these birds seem to fly(and land) better with CG around 30% of chord. With a 20 lb heavier engine that problem will only get worse unless you move the wing forward...or add weight to the tail. Oratex for covering may save a bit of weight too. It's cost prohibitive for me, but you're much closer to where it's made, so it may be cheaper for you.

[wojtekseta]

My main goal is to go down with weight to 115 kg (254 lbf) empty to fullfill the regulations. Additionaly I will build from metric tubing (fuselage + 3 lbf) that's why I need savings in any place of aircraft. I know that, I will have CG problem. I will move CG of engine possibly back  in comparison with Betterhalf full case. It will be not enough - I will have to move wing forward.

It is very good info about 8 lbs of difference only on the struts. I think, on wheels should be even more , but I can't find info about weight of BlackMax with brakes (classified information?). Maybe someone knows?
I used Oracover when I was building models, even then it was expensive . I will use Dacron, 3M Scotch Weld, Latex primer and Acrylic latex paint. I made some sample almost 2 years ago and leave it out of house. Before I use the process on the plane I will do fabric test on the sample. The process is easy and smells good .

[ArcticDave]

Les Homan has a thread here somewhere that contained a weight list of various parts. It had the weights you're looking for. A search may pull it up. 

I'm with you on the latex. Doing the same here.

[Dave Stroud]

Many years ago I built a SkyPup and used dacron fabric from the local fabric store. Dirt cheap and it worked fine. It's the stuff you'd line a suit jacket with. Easy to work with, glue and shrink. Lots's of area to glue the wing fabric too. The ribs were 3/4" thick styrofoam. 

A buddy of mine recently covered a Tailwind with the Stewart system fabric and used the latex process and it went well.