Author Topic: Station 1 Motor Mount  (Read 6617 times)

Offline John Harmon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Total likes: 1
  • Building XL and 1/2 VW
    • My Builders BLOG
  • Eagle Type: Eagle XL
Station 1 Motor Mount
« on: January 11, 2014, 08:44:57 AM »
I welded up station 1 and when I was welding the gussets for the motor mounts, it was very hard to weld the 1/16 plate to the 0.035 tubing without holes appearing. I am wondering if I should have used 0.049 tubing instead. Any thoughts?
John Harmon
XL-D-06

Offline Dan_

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2014, 08:56:51 AM »
 it was very hard to weld the 1/16 plate to the 0.035 tubing without holes appearing.
John,
Try this...  that gusset should be easy to get extra preheat on, but hold the torch at an angle more toward the thicker piece (of course) and more particularly, keep changing that angle until you find the best angle for welding these two different thicknesses...

When you find that best torch angle, you can bring it down and start to make a puddle but then take the torch away and see that both pieces are glowing the same, therefore taking the same amount (in proportion to thickness) of heat.  Also you can usually use the filler rod to shield some heat off the thinner piece...


“A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations which require the use of his superior skills.”

– Frank Borman, Apollo 8 Commander

Offline John Harmon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Total likes: 1
  • Building XL and 1/2 VW
    • My Builders BLOG
  • Eagle Type: Eagle XL
Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 01:08:15 PM »
Thanks Dan,

     The board I tacked up station one on really got hot as evidenced by the following picture. I did figure out to angle the torch towards the thicker metal while I was final welding the flanges in and  I really poured the filler metal to it as I went. I think the welds are fine but my mentor thinks the holes that I had to fill are a problem. I will probably redo station one and try harder not to burn holes. After I recover from smoke inhalation... HA HA

JH
John Harmon
XL-D-06

Offline Dan_

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2014, 04:00:42 PM »
  I think the welds are fine but my mentor thinks the holes that I had to fill are a problem. I will probably redo station one and try harder not to burn holes. 


Welds look awesome...  Keep it going. 




It is a critical area, so may be better to redo.  Many use a safety cable as well so you can't loose the engine altogether.  Those Canadian geese are hell on prop blades...::)

Sam B has the cable on his...


“A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations which require the use of his superior skills.”

– Frank Borman, Apollo 8 Commander

Offline rockiedog2

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 05:46:12 PM »
i've welded up a lotta holes but my kids are grown and gone

Offline scottiniowa

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2014, 08:01:04 AM »
I welded up station 1 and when I was welding the gussets for the motor mounts, it was very hard to weld the 1/16 plate to the 0.035 tubing without holes appearing. I am wondering if I should have used 0.049 tubing instead. Any thoughts?

comments by Scott W.
Looks like you have got past the welding of this stage John, but I would like to add a answer to your question with a couple thoughts not mentioned by others.
  • it is always better to learn to weld the recommended part or thickness sizes rather than substitute thicker stronger materials as this causes two things,  higher over all weight and stronger areas where not intended by the designer.
  • Very likely you may have another tip size for  your torch that may work better on controlling the amount of heat you would like for this welding. Worth a try on some sample parts.
best email address:  irondesignairparts@gmail.com

Offline CHARLES DEBOER

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 02:01:40 AM »
I welded up station 1 and when I was welding the gussets for the motor mounts, it was very hard to weld the 1/16 plate to the 0.035 tubing without holes appearing.

John, how much clearance did you have on the engine mount gusset after welding the eng. mount 1 1/8" tube or spool to the gusset?  I haven't welded mine yet but when I lay them out I only have about 1/4" from the edge of the gusset to the 1 1/8" engine mount spool or tube.

Offline Rich Snyder

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2014, 03:20:12 PM »
Charles- I too have the same question. After cutting a piece of 1/4 in plywood to fit inside my station 1, I made a template for the bolt positions directly from the engine that I hope to use. Close clearance for me too. Is this expected? Because I expected much more room between the 1 1/8" mount tube to the edge. Rich.

Offline CHARLES DEBOER

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2014, 08:30:47 PM »
Charles- I too have the same question. After cutting a piece of 1/4 in plywood to fit inside my station 1, I made a template for the bolt positions directly from the engine that I hope to use. Close clearance for me too. Is this expected? Because I expected much more room between the 1 1/8" mount tube to the edge. Rich.
Rich, I got a reply from Pooman2 who also felt there wasn't enough clearance.  He made his mounts 3" tall by 3 1/2" long which would weigh the same and allow an extra 1/4" at the edge.  I haven't laid this out yet but that is the way I am leaning.  The 7/16" difference between the top and bottom bolt holes shows up big time on the bottom engine mount gussets.

Offline Poorman2

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2014, 04:10:28 AM »
Charles, I have not installed my engine yet. That is why I had hoped someone else that was flying the full case engine would chime in about it. If you look at the picture on John's third reply, you will notice that he changed the dimentions of his plates as well. Les Homan has about 100 hours on his( I think). Maybe he will chime in and give his opinion. :)

Offline Rich Snyder

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2014, 06:22:55 AM »
Here is a picture of my station one with the plywood template installed. The circles in the corners are where the 1 1/8" mount tubes will end up. All dimensions between the mounts match the dimensions in the plans. The hole in the middle is where I put a dowel through the center to line up the template on the back of the engine. As you can see, I've got a little more edge clearance on the bottom two holes and could shift the template down a little to even up the edge clearance between the top and bottom. All I have to do is draw in some lines to represent the actual size of the sheet steel gussets. Then I will number them so that I won't screw up their placement when it comes time to weld the real things in. Comments please; Rich.

Offline CHARLES DEBOER

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2014, 01:46:10 PM »
 All I have to do is draw in some lines to represent the actual size of the sheet steel gussets. Then I will number them so that I won't screw up their placement when it comes time to weld the real things in. Comments please; Rich.

Rich
When you draw in the 3 !/4" line from the inside edge of Sta. #1 tubes you will see what I am referring to.  The edge closest to the sta. #1 tubes is supported by the welds but the outside edge of the gusset for the top mounting holes is only 1/4" from the unsupported edge.

Offline Sam Buchanan

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2014, 01:48:40 PM »
Could you add 1/2" tubing to span the unsupported long edges of the gussets?

Offline CHARLES DEBOER

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2014, 02:09:03 PM »
Could you add 1/2" tubing to span the unsupported long edges of the gussets?

Thanks Sam, I noticed on your XL that you welded a triangular gusset to what looks like the outside of sat. #1.  Or, it may be just an optical illusion due to the angel of the photograph.

Offline Poorman2

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2014, 02:25:16 PM »
Charles, Sam does not run the full case engine. His mounts are not the same as ours. He runs the cut case engine. As John Bolding said recently, station one is where Leonard saved some weight on the LE XL compared to the LE. You could add some 1/2 inch tubing to brace the unsupported edge, but you are adding more weight for what reason? Just add a little to your plates and let it go. I do believe I would add a cable like Sam did though. Keep on trucking.:)

Offline John Harmon

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 47
  • Total likes: 1
  • Building XL and 1/2 VW
    • My Builders BLOG
  • Eagle Type: Eagle XL
Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2014, 02:52:38 PM »
Sorry I didn't reply sooner. Charles, I drew my station 1 up in auto cad. My gussets were designed from that drawing. I haven't welded the rings in yet because I was dissatisfied with the job I did welding the gussets in... too much undercutting of the tubes. I am out of 1/16" steel to remake the gussets.

JH
John Harmon
XL-D-06

Offline Rich Snyder

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2014, 07:22:52 PM »
Charles- I did notice what you are talking about and made mine with a bit more radius, for a bit more meat at the unsupported edge. This left me with an area of metal at what will be my welded edge that could probably be trimmed a bit for weight savings, but I think I will leave it on. I feel it will support the engine vibration evenly in both horizontal and vertical, station one tubes. That is the way the plans show the welds done. So much for "feels good engineering". 
Attached is a photo of one gusset just taped in place. The white dot represents where the hole will be and the distance to the unsupported edge is about 3/4 ". Rich.

Offline CHARLES DEBOER

Re: Station 1 Motor Mount
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2014, 08:28:10 PM »
Thanks to all.  I think that I wanted some re-assurance or "feel good" response.  Sorry if I beat this thing to death.  The group is outstanding and I am thankful you guys are out there.  I wouldn't be able to finish this plane without this group.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2020, SimplePortal