Author Topic: 3/4” x .028 cm tube  (Read 401 times)

Offline okawbow

3/4” x .028 cm tube
« on: September 06, 2019, 06:01:35 PM »
For the engineer types out there...would a LEXL fuselage madewith 3/4” x .028 tube in place of the 5/8” x .035tube be as strong/ stiff? Would it be weldable?

Offline okdonn

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Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2019, 09:36:09 AM »
I'm not an engineer, but I found this when considering similar substitutions.

https://www.roguefab.com/tube-calculator/

Dia  wall     safety factor   Z moment of inertia
5/8 0.035   0.9203           0.009002524
3/4 0.028   1.122             0.010976292
Don in Okla.  DE Plans B-40 (small), CE plans CE-02 (all weather),  Tailwind project #746 (medium),  C182A (large)
One size does NOT fit all!

Offline okawbow

Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2019, 12:27:56 PM »
So, if I’m read it correctly, the larger tube is stronger. It is the same weight per foot, or just slightly lighter, so should be ok.

Offline okdonn

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Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2019, 03:50:00 PM »
I didn't look up the weight per foot, but yes, it looks to be stronger. However, last time I looked, all the 0.028 tubing was considerably more expensive, if that's a consideration.
Don in Okla.  DE Plans B-40 (small), CE plans CE-02 (all weather),  Tailwind project #746 (medium),  C182A (large)
One size does NOT fit all!

Offline okawbow

Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2019, 04:25:56 PM »
I didn't look up the weight per foot, but yes, it looks to be stronger. However, last time I looked, all the 0.028 tubing was considerably more expensive, if that's a consideration.
I actually can get both sizes of the .028 4130 tube for $4.00 a foot less than the .035 sizes. They have 7000ft of the 3/4 and 5000 ft of the 5/8. I will save over $600.00 on tube. And it’s only 35 miles away. I plan on picking up enough for the build Monday.

Offline okdonn

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Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2019, 04:27:15 PM »
Go for it!
Don in Okla.  DE Plans B-40 (small), CE plans CE-02 (all weather),  Tailwind project #746 (medium),  C182A (large)
One size does NOT fit all!

Offline Vince Carucci

Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2019, 05:51:33 PM »
I calculated the .75" x 0.028 to be about 1.2 times stronger than the .625" x 0.035.
This should work out well for a truss style frame. 
You should consider that the thinner walls may dent easier. 
And thinner walls might be a bit more finicky when welding.  

By the way, buy replacing the main tube of the landing gear with 7/8" x 0.035, you effectively double the strength of the tube with a 1.5 oz. penalty per linear foot.

Offline okawbow

Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2019, 06:01:04 PM »
I accept that the thinner tube maybe more finicky to weld, but I have more time than money. I’m sure if I go slow and use the right tip and flame, it will work ok.

Offline Dan_

Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2019, 08:50:26 PM »
Make sure you test for correct torch angle...

Try an angle and apply heat.  Withdraw the torch and both tubes should cool at the same rate.  You will be watching the color change.  When you have the right torch angle for the cluster the color of the tubes will change the same.

Of course you only know if you have the wrong angle with mig is when you blow a hole...

How to determine oxyacete tip size...


“A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations which require the use of his superior skills.”

– Frank Borman, Apollo 8 Commander

Offline scottiniowa

Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2019, 11:58:06 PM »
I actually can get both sizes of the .028 4130 tube for $4.00 a foot less than the .035 sizes. They have 7000ft of the 3/4 and 5000 ft of the 5/8. I will save over $600.00 on tube. And it’s only 35 miles away. I plan on picking up enough for the build Monday.
Unless things have changed tremendously, I would encourage to again check the prices... It never use to be this way...and almost always .750 x .035 being the cheapest of all tubing... A volume thing.    If what you say is true, great..

Best of success.
best email address:  irondesignairparts@gmail.com

Offline okawbow

Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2019, 05:37:24 AM »
You’re scaring me now! LOL. I did call them to confirm the price. I guess it’s an overstock thing. Sure hope it’s not a mistake.

Offline okdonn

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Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2019, 03:57:13 PM »
OK - 0.028 is more expensive than 0.035 at Spruce - where are you getting this price, I might need to stock up!
Don in Okla.  DE Plans B-40 (small), CE plans CE-02 (all weather),  Tailwind project #746 (medium),  C182A (large)
One size does NOT fit all!

Offline okawbow

Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2019, 04:04:01 PM »
I’ll report back tomorrow if the tube looks ok and the price is not a mistake.

Chuck

Offline okdonn

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Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2019, 06:04:40 PM »
I just remembered that several (6-8) years ago there was a discussion about Chinese vs German and American 4130, the general consensus being to avoid the Chinese if at all possible, due to inconsistent quality, impurities, hard spots that cracked, etc. I don't know if that's still the case or not - just reporting what I read on the internet :-)
"If it's too good to be true ---"
Don in Okla.  DE Plans B-40 (small), CE plans CE-02 (all weather),  Tailwind project #746 (medium),  C182A (large)
One size does NOT fit all!

Offline okawbow

Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2019, 06:34:55 PM »
I’ll check it over carefully. Hopefully it will be ok. Won’t cost too much to find out, and always good for other projects.

Offline okawbow

Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2019, 09:28:30 AM »
I picked up the tube this morning. Got 126’ of the .750x.028, and 38’ of the .625x.028, ( extra for practice welding) plus 5’ of the 1.125x .035.

The first two were $1.05 per ft, and the 1.125” was $.50 a foot. On sale.

All were marked ams-t6736a-condition n 4130

All tubes measure within a thousands or two for diameter all around, and wall thickness was also within a thousands or so. All tubes were clean and rust free, and straight.

Quality seems very good so far, but really won’t know until I try cutting and welding.

Wicks says they have over 7000 ft of the 3/4x .028 and 5000 ft of the 5/8x.028 in stock.

Chuck

Offline okawbow

Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2019, 10:28:24 AM »
Here is a discussion on a snow mobile forum that brings up some good ideas about welding cromoly and about Chinese tube.

http://cs.amsnow.com/sno/general_discussions/f/14/p/46155/227819.aspx

Offline okdonn

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Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2019, 02:01:49 PM »
This is from another forum I monitor - where I first heard about the Chinese tubing issue:

"Vern,
The USA and German sourced is identified “Plytube” or “Bentelar” respectively; the Chinese that I have seen has no markings, they are not very proud of it either. If you polish the OD the US and G are very uniform, the Chinese is irregular and even appears to have cold laps in some areas.

At Wicks you can specify “no Chinese”, there is a small surcharge for doing so; well worth that IMO."
Don in Okla.  DE Plans B-40 (small), CE plans CE-02 (all weather),  Tailwind project #746 (medium),  C182A (large)
One size does NOT fit all!

Offline okawbow

Re: 3/4” x .028 cm tube
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2019, 02:20:01 PM »
I recently read that much if not most of the “American” 4130 tube is Chinese made raw tube that is processed by American manufacturers. Also that very little of the 4130 is made in the US or Germany.

The tubes I bought at Wicks are marked with grade and heat numbers. The finish and dimensions are good. It’s probably imported, but not marked as that.

I would much rather have US made, but they didn’t have any in stock, and I saved over $700.00. That might not make a difference to many, but for me; it probably makes the whole project possible. I’m famous in my area for doing things on the cheap, but my projects have always turned out very well.