XL empty weight, with various engines?

[rv7charlie]

I know this has probably been covered already but I couldn't find a thread with definitive info.
The XL is UL compliant, but *how* compliant is it? Meaning is it 1 lb under the 254 lb weight limit, or 20 lbs under, or how much? There are obviously multiple engine choices out there now with significantly varying weights, but if the LE XL only meets UL weight limits with a cut case hand prop 1/2 VW, it would be good to know before selecting a different engine. 

Thanks for any input/experiences.

[Brock]

I too would be very interested in this information.  It would be educational to have a chart of weights and options for various XL's.  For example, my build is shaping up to be (Verner 3V, 20" bike wheels, Oratex covering, etc).  I'm planning on Oratex because of lack of weight information to ensure I keep as light as possible.  It would be nice for a way to submit information annonomously in case a build is squeezing the limits a bit too much.  But on the other hand, that probably is very rare.  Right?

[Chuck in Indiana]

FWIW a flight instructor friend was talking to the GADO, and he said if it had one seat, a 5 gallon gas tank, and looked like it wouldn't go 100 mph, it was an ultralight. Period. 
For the OPs question.. an XL *can* make ultralight weight. Barely.

[BradW]

I would be interested as well, mainly due to the engine limitations - prices, availability, weights, etc. etc.


I agree rv7charlie - if we could get some empty weights without engines mounted that would be great info. Or even finished weight and some idea of actual engine and prop weights before they were hung. It's always such a nebulous thing to try to pin down when trying to make decisions about this stuff.


Also - Chuck in Indiana - when your friend who talked to the GADO heard "it's an ultralight. Period.", what does that mean exactly?  what was he saying? That no matter whether it meets the requirements of 103 or not it's going to be an ultralight? Or that as far as he is concerned, if looks like an ultralight then it's an ultralight - and it automatically meets the requirements? Are they looking the other way on purpose? Just because a plane meets his definition surely doesn't mean it's legal. There are a bunch (probably most all of them) that aren't legal.

[rv7charlie]

My bet would be that he meant, 'If you only kill yourself and don't damage something expensive on the ground, we're not coming out to check the wreckage.'

Every FSDO is going to be a bit different, but most are understaffed and not motivated to create any work they see as unnecessary.  My FSDO is actually pretty good, and easy to work with. My 1st homebuilt (purchased when I was still a student) was a Dragonfly canard a/c. The guy checking it out for me after I brought it home on a trailer managed to break the canard on landing at a fairly busy county airport about 15 miles from the FSDO and the major international airport for our area. Approach control was called so they could notify arrivals to the smaller airport, but as far as I know, the FSDO never investigated anything. We disassembled the a/c within a couple of hours and I trailered it home. Remember, this was an N numbered a/c; not anything resembling an ultralite.

[BradW]

Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking - it probably depends on who you get. The FSDO’s surely vary across the country. Here it’s mostly airline pilots, so the FSDO is looking the other way for sure considering what these guys do on their days off around here.

But I guess my main concern is, how likely is it, really, to be ramp checked? I wonder how many people on this forum have ever actually had that experience with a Legal Eagle. Then it will depend on the guy you get as to whether he’s gonna be “by the book” or not. I mean, weight isn’t the only concern here. So if they are generally treating it all like the guy mentioned above who doesn’t even seem look at them twice, then maybe there’s less risk?

[rv7charlie]

At what airport would one be flying a true UL where the FAA is going to be hanging out? And do they come packing scales? Unless it's obviously overweight, or obviously has too much gas capacity, or has more than one seat, what is there to check other than weight? (Unless the pilot is doing something to attract serious attention, of course.)

[BradW]

Yeah, well I don’t want to go there really, but there are other fairly obvious things, “if” the guy is looking for them.

This private airport (grass runway 2400’) where I live is open to the public, has an FBO with gas, had maintenance until the guy just retired, has a restaurant (is a destination), and as such has a *lot* of traffic from all over. The locals come out to go to the restaurant and watch airplanes do low passes. And the FSDO guys are all friends with all the airline pilots who live and play here. So they are around actually - you just never know. But then they don’t bust these guys for doing formation low passes (< 50AGL) in two Texans, pissing off all the neighbors with the noise, and the obvious aerobatic maneuvers as they pull up at the end, less than 200’ from all the people outside at the restaurant - so hey maybe they could care less about an ultralight, right?

But anyhow, as far as weight is concerned - I think a lot of people just don’t want to talk about it, and really don’t want to publicly go on record as to what their actual weights are. It’s “don’t ask - don’t tell”. But just having finished wing weights separate from the airframe, and fuselage weights after everything is welded up, stuff like that, would be a huge help. And engine weights are almost meaningless unless you weigh the entire installation, firewall forward, no prop - and nobody does that as far as I can see. Just build it and fly it is the attitude, I guess. But I would still like to see some info on those things.

[rv7charlie]

Yeah, at one point we had three residents at our airpark and the guy who owns the land at one end, all working for the FSDO. All pretty laid back, but this isn't a public use airport.